The DAV, or the Disabled American Veterans is an organization that is exceptionally widespread with over one million members and local chapters across the United States, Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia. As a member of the Patriot Warrior Club at Freehold Township High School, our direct contact with NJ Chapter 74 presented me with the honor of meeting local veterans and the opportunity to interview some about their experiences and Memorial Day. (Note, unfortunately not everyone had the same amount of time for each interview, due to either/both personal schedule or the time allowed before, occasionally during, and after the DAV meeting. As a result, not every question has been answered by all three veterans.)

Interview #1:

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1. What’s your name?

George Karatvia  (Vietnam War Veteran)

1. What branch of the military did you serve in?

George: Army.

2. How long did you serve for?

George: Two years from 1966 to 1968

3. Besides food banks, Toys for Tots, what other programs are the DAV a part of that you wish more people knew about?

George: I think my organization, Dogs for Warriors AHEPA, it’s a great organization. In fact, in New Jersey, which is a national organization, but in New Jersey not only do we have the service dog program helping out veterans but we also have a cancer foundation that raised a lot of money that goes to research.

4. What are some common challenges disabled veterans face when transitioning back into their civilian life?

George: I think what happens is, that like myself, at nineteen I get drafted and within six months I’m in a war situation. Then, I come home and I’m just a veteran. So, the thing is you find that nothing prepared you for war and you also find nothing prepares you to become a civilian again. You know, you’re supposed to forget and start like nothing ever happened.

5. In what ways do veterans support each other through the DAV and how would you describe the sense of community here?

George: You know, all of us here have served our country honorably. And so, when I came back, as you know, someone who had PTSD, and I went to the supermarket, there was an old guy from the DAV. They were raising money for some cause, you know, and of course I went to support them. And he says, ‘Hey, did you serve?’ ‘Yes, I was in Vietnam,’ this and that, you know that type of thing. And, I, when I got back I couldn’t wait to get back to the old crowd, and less than five minutes when I got back to the old crowd, all they wanted to know was how many gooks did you kill, and I remember, like I was getting an anxiety attack and I left, you know. So, I found company in these old guys that they understood me and I wanted to be with them, in their company. No, everyone one of these guys is a great guy, they do great work. Al over there, see Al over there? Most generous guy with his time, you know, and helping veterans and if somebody is not able to get to the meeting, problems, health, going to pick him up and bring ‘em here.

6. What does Memorial Day personally mean to you and to the DAV?

George: You know, Memorial Day unfortunately to many is nothing more than everybody is having a sale. You know, everybody has really lost, you know, okay, you’re all getting a day off, we’re getting, you know, cheap clothing today, department stores. But for those who have lost loved ones, you know, the pain never goes away. You know, I know those who have been young men like myself, and you know, it was, like I saw two guys get killed. And this was the first time I saw anybody get killed, and it was the mist of the jungle. And the helicopters couldn’t come in ‘cause it was a thick jungle, but the helicopters, they hovered over, they dropped a line, they took the dead with a harness and raised him up. And in my mind, I’m just saying that, within five days from now, two soldiers are going to wind up knocking on the parents’ doors, notifying them of what happened here. You know, and they were my age. 

7. How does the DAV honor service members who have lost their lives?

George: I think, you know, we show it with parades, that type of thing. We, you know where we have in Freehold, where they have the crosses over there?

Myself: Yes, I just saw them on my way here.

George: Okay, so, like we would have like a Memorial Day there and we would have some program over there, you know? And one of the guys here plays taps, see the fellow over there with the red shirt and the white beard? He’s a trumpet player and he plays taps.

8. Is there a story of a fallen service member that you would like to share with more people?

George: I, no one specific, you know, it’s a way as we’re all in this boat and rough water, and you know when I, when the helicopter landed and I’m the new guy with his new boots and new fatigues and clean shave and I’m looking at guys who are filthy dirty, and you say where the hell they’ve been? And now here comes the company commander, and with the new guy, he comes over like this and says ‘My name is Captain Mark, my job is to try to keep you alive,’ and he walked away. There was nothing more to say. You know, ‘Hi, how are you guys, you know we’re having tea at five o’clock?’ but that was it. That was like cold water in the face.

9. How do you think schools and youth can participate in meaningful ways of remembrance?

George: I think that it’s to take a cause, any cause that will help veterans, and do some kind of fundraiser. So, in other words, it’s not giving just lip service. You know? And you say, “How do you want to help?” You’re going to have to decide which way you want to help.

Interview #2:

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1. What’s your name?

Rodger R. Lodi  (Served during a time of Vietnam, but not in Vietnam)

2. What branch of the military did you serve in?

Rodger: I was in the United States Army.

3. How long did you serve for?

Rodger: I served from May of 1972 until June of 1993.

4. Besides food banks, Toys for Tots, what other programs are the DAV a part of that you wish more people knew about?

Rodger: Alright, we have actually three purposes. Most important of vets is getting assistance with their claims. So, we have a service officer and the DAV also has full time paid service officers that work in this state up in Newark that help the claims go through and the DAV actually can have the ability to look at your claim in the VA files as it goes forward. They can’t change anything but they can read only, and they can tell you if it’s held up or what its progress is or what else you need to get, so that’s a prime aid that we offer veterans. A second thing we do is we allow the vets here, that we get together, this is a monthly meeting where we can get together. We’re all of the same ilk, we served the country, and we can fraternize and socialize and enjoy each other’s company ‘cause we come from the same generation and the same point of view of serving. Okay? The third thing our chapter does in addition with our fundraising, we attempt to make donations. There are four veterans homes in the state of New Jersey, one is a VA home up in Orange and there are three state run veterans homes in New Jersey, and we attempt quarterly or semi-annually to make donations to those homes, each of which houses between three and four hundred veterans. So, I call their secretaries and they tell me what projects they have going and what they need money for, and then we’ll make a donation towards that project.

Myself: That’s amazing. I’ve also heard that there was like a cancer raising foundation, there was the dog program going on.

Rodger: Right, right, we’re interactive with the other veterans, you know like Warriors Foundation, and Wounded Warriors, and the dog thing, we’re tied to the Zalinski Foundation who have gotten a lot of dogs to help veterans with PTSD. ‘Cause dogs apparently are very soothing, fish are soothing for people with PTSD, we bought a number of fish tanks for these veterans homes, because it’s expensive to, and they don’t have that in their state budget to have fish tanks and all that, it costs money to keep those things running, but apparently it’s soothing and helpful to people with PTSD, so we do those things as well. They say horses are too, but that’s really expensive.

Myself: And a lot of maintenance.

Rodger: Yeah.

5. What are some common challenges disabled veterans face when transitioning back into their civilian life?

Rodger: Well, if, the hardest one, if you’re in combat arms, and your job has been to close with the enemy, most companies aren’t thoughtful about what skills you have in terms of being a leader, in terms of team effort, in terms of energy and being organized and all that. They overlook that, and companies tend, if they want an electrician, they want someone to sell them electrician work, you know? Or if they want a cook, it’s got to be someone who is a cook. They overlook the intangible skills that veterans have in terms of self discipline, and a good work ethic, and a team spirit when they want to help a group get to the objective. They overlook that sometimes and it makes it hard because you don’t line up. Right now we have a world where if your resume says I’m a widget fixer and that’s what that company wants, they’ll hire you. Even though a veteran who is, has those characteristics that I just talked about might even do it better ‘cause you just gotta give time to learn. Industry isn’t always interested in waiting to find out, they want to tie their things together, their skills together, and go forward that way. So that’s a challenge, I think, when you transition.

6. In what ways do veterans support each other through the DAV and how would you describe the sense of community here?

Rodger: Well, and look, I was in for a long time, but most of these gentlemen were all in Vietnam, I didn’t get to go to Vietnam, I was commissioned right as the Vietnam war was being drawn down so I wasn’t sent to Vietnam. So these men shared something that I’d never shared, which is they were in combat. So they’ve been in combat together, and obviously aside from the trauma and being in the middle of loss and death, they can bolster each other with those fears and pains, ‘cause I’ve met a lot of people who have been in combat in my career and you’re not quite the same. Your eyes aren’t, I don’t believe your eyes are the same once you’ve seen someone killed in combat, and I don’t believe your reactions are the same and I think they can empathize with each other because you can’t always talk to someone off the street and explain to them what it’s like, and you know, you have that kind of sympathy and empathy that you would need to, why you’re feeling the way you are. And there’s always guilt involved, even though you might be killing an enemy of your country. There’s still the guilt of taking another life, alright?

7. What does Memorial Day personally mean to you and to the DAV?

Rodger: Well, I’m a history fanatic anyhow, so I tie Memorial Day to all my knowledge of history. I’m very aware of, you know, World War II and the Civil War. On a personal level, my best friend from VMI was killed in Beirut with the marines. And I think of him often, I think of him especially on the October date and I always think of him on Memorial Day. And it’s that kind of loss that I mourn, and it’s a shame it has to happen in the world we have, that people still go to war, and all that, but you lose, if you don’t have the staying power to go to war and deal with it, you can lose something worse. We can lose our freedom, you know? And we can get philosophical about fighting for resources and all of that, but the bottom line is there are bad society’s, there are better society’s, and there are evil society’s, and we have to protect ourselves from those evil ones that would subverb what we have.

8. How does the DAV honor service members who have lost their lives?

Rodger: The prime way, and you heard it tonight, is how we help the survivors, especially the widows get the benefits that are due them, and sometimes that’s a fight to get because many of the wives aren’t even as well versed as the members were. Where to go, what see, the husband’s been in touch with the DAV or the VA or whatever, and then he’s gone or she’s gone and they don’t know, they don’t have an idea. And you heard that Al, our service officer here, helped. We just lost a really special member that we had here for a long time. He just passed a few months ago and he helped the widow get all the benefits she’s due. So that’s the most important thing in the loss. And, I think, we provide, like with Charlie, who’s one hundred and one, our World War II veteran. You know, we provide comfort, he has comfort in that we think of him and that we’ve included him and we always have him in our prayers and thoughts. And I think, you know, that helps you hang in there when you’re gettin’ older and things are going on. You got a lot before you feel that stuff but as you get older and you see a lot of the people you know, there’s less and less of them around, you can feel a loneliness coming on, and you have to buck up, and we can help each other buck up.

9. Is there a story of a fallen service member that you would like to share with more people?

Rodger: That one’s hard, because, I mean, I’m not objective because I think about my friend from VMI who was, the marines in Beirut that were bombed, that was the first suicide bomber ever. Okay? That’s when it all started, when the Hezbollah did that to the marines in Beirut, they didn’t even, they weren’t even, they had weapons but they were, they didn’t have bullets, they weren’t loaded, they weren’t ready for that because they didn’t think they were on that kind of mission. But they saw, says the infidels and they killed a few hundred marines, among them my friend. So, I’m predisposed to think about him but, you know, he was serving just like the rest of us. You know, you decide that there’s more to life than just earning on a personal level, to pay your bills and all that, that you want to serve a higher calling. So, we’re all on the same level there, even the heroes that get the medals and everything, we’re all still on the same level, we all do the same thing, we decide to serve and we put our lives on the line, so it’s pretty equal, really.

10. How do you think schools and youth can participate in meaningful ways of remembrance?

Rodger: The challenge is, one thing’s getting away is people don’t know their history like they should and it gets, history is in our social issues in the recent years we sort of bombarded history, we’ve really misconstrued it and twisted it and all that because it gets politicized. History are facts.

Member passing by: Got to realize one thing, he was an officer so you can’t believe anything he says. 

Rodger: So, when you do know your history, oh good, this is great, now I lost my train of thought. What was the question again?

Myself: The question was how can schools and youth participate in meaningful remembrance?

Rodger: Okay, well, if, first of all you have to understand your history, understand what people are doing. There’s a lot of me stuff going on now, and people are just, the way people drive, everybody’s gettin’ ahead. Everything, when things are goofed up, I don’t care if everyone else is in the roadblock, if I can go around them on the sideways or on the, bypass or whatever, I’m gonna do that ‘cause I want to get ahead. People don’t think of a higher calling or anything above them except themselves and you have to have that basis first, before you can really realize. And also, I think also, our society with the, and look, I’m a movie fan and all and I’m aware of all the games and all that, but I still understand when you’re dead, you’re dead and I think a lot of our media and all of that, I’m not bashing it, there’s no way to stop it, it’s part of going forward, but it almost trivialises or makes it so it doesn’t seem to bad because you see it so often on TV, boom, boom, boom. I think you got to separate your senses from your theatrics, and understand the gravity. Every time a military person dies, there’s a family that’s hurt, there are parents that are hurt, there are siblings, there are wives, maybe children, and that hurt doesn’t go away. It’s a long term thing, it’s a forever thing, you wonder why is my dad gone or why is my friend gone and I’m here. And it’s a forever thing, and so you got to disconnect and take the death part serious because people are offering themselves up. Even the thank you for your service, I appreciate it when people say it but you know what?  It’s almost become a little bit of a cliche now. People say it almost because they’re expected to say it or they think they’re expected to say it when they see a vet. I didn’t do it to hear that, Gunny didn’t do it to hear that, we signed up because we had something in our being that said we needed to serve a higher calling, and that’s why we did it. So, I think the way the younger people can get into it is they have to understand the gravity of the whole thing, that it’s not a game, it’s a real thing, and it’s a serious thing. And then they can check their history, and loss is terrible. I used to go to Barkalow as part of the career thing, and I would do if you want to go to West Point, if you want to go to VMI, if you want to get an ROTC scholarship. And that was, I got that question every year, ‘How many people did you kill? Have you been shot?’ That was more interesting, that was on overriding- but hey, come on, they’re seventh and eight graders, you know. I’m not sure if you can expect too much more than that anyhow, but, but it is sad that that is what comes up, you know?

11. What do you wish more people understood about the sacrifice behind this holiday?

Rodger: Well, again, they need to remember the depth of what they are memorializing. You know it’s a holiday, you’re celebrating that we still have our republic and that we’re safe and that there was a cost, and we’re memorializing the cost. We’re not happy they had to pay it, but we’re glad that when the threat came they were able to step up and pay it so that we can have what we have, our freedom, our democracy, and that we’re alive and our families and that we’re going forward.

12. How can people make sure the day remains about remembrance rather than just a long weekend?

Rodger: Well, the only thing I think of, is you can add just like the Burrough has a ceremony where they read the biography of the captain from the Revolutionary War and the officer from the Civil War and going forward families or family groups can do that. I know of some people that on July 4th they would read the Declaration of Independence around the family. The father made, they passed it around, and each family member would read a paragraph, you know. Selected ones, I don’t know if they probably, I don’t think they read the whole thing, probably, might be a little bit too much. But that’s a way to, at the beginning of Memorial Day or Independence Day to recognize and remember and then you can go out and have the frivolity and the enjoyment part after you’ve stopped for a second to say, ‘Hey, what’s this all really about?”

13. What does honoring the fallen mean to you on a personal level?

Rodger: Well, you know, it’s like I remember my friend, and he’s alive still in my head and my heart. I’m in touch, it’s gotten more sparse, but I was in touch with his daughter who was two when he was killed and his wife for a while, and that has trailed off, and that’s, some of that’s my fault and some of that’d just life gets in the way. Everybody goes onto different things, you know, but that’s how just like you would with your grandparents or great uncles, people who had a great impact on your life, if they’re alive, their still alive if their alive in your heart and your head, and you think about them, then their spirit, their leaving a legacy with you on how to act and what to do, and also with veterans it means it wasn’t in vain because they’re remembered so it wasn’t in vain.

14. What’s one message that maybe we did or didn’t touch on that you would like to convey to the people who will read this article?

Rodger: You’re questions keep getting harder and harder, okay? I think in this day and age, service, service to a higher calling, more than personal gain or profit, okay? I mean, we all know some modicum of  service ‘cause within our family, you always want to protect your family, that’s a form of service, too. But elevating your goals to where you want to serve your society, make it better by being a policeman, or better because you’re a doctor, or protecting it so that our freedoms go forward. I think, you know, keeping that in mind and realising that elevating yourself to that level is really, really something special. That that’s important to keep in mind because then you realize how special that loss is, that those people put themselves voluntarily in harm’s way in that service.

Myself: And you said you were not a Vietnam veteran, right?

Rodger: I was in the army when Vietnam was going on, but when I was commissioned they were no longer, I asked to go, but they were no longer sending people to Vietnam, so I was sent elsewhere. I came in at the very end of the line, in ‘72 they weren’t sending, Vietnamization of the war was going on and we were taking our forces out and saying the Vietnamese could do it on their own, which was not true, it didn’t happen.

Interview #3:

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1. What’s your name?

Edward “Gunny” Temple (Served during The Lebanese Civil War or Beirut, the Invasion of Granada, and the Iran-Iraq War or the taking of the Iraqi Embassy. He trained for such events, but never served in said events.)

2. What branch of the military did you serve in?

Gunny: Marine Corps.

3. How long did you serve for?

Gunny: I served 1976 to 1998.

4. Were you in Vietnam?

Gunny: No, no I signed up in ‘76. It was long over by then. I was in during the Beirut, the Granada, the taking of the Iraqi embassy, and that. That was my ten year there, but I did not get to go play over in those other campaigns. But I was ready. I get to claim that I went to bootcamp seven times. Go ahead, ask how. I did it once as a recruit, second patalian paris island, then I went back years later as a drill sergeant from ‘85 to ‘87. So I got to train all those people who eventually may have had the opportunity to go to somewhere else and go into harm’s way. My claim to fame is, you want to know what I think about why we need to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice? Our marine corp league detachment that I’m a member of, Cpl. Reynolds, Cpl. Philips A. Reynolds to be exact, was killed in Korea in the Chosin Reservoir. Our detachment is named after him to honor him. He was from Freehold, he went to Freehold High School, he ran track and cross country and all those good things. His older sister, a year older than he was, she came, actually gave us a little six minute spiel, what was he like growing up, and all that good stuff. He joined up in 1957, 1958 he was over in Korea, and he was killed. He was a machine gunner, he was a Cpl. at the time, he was in charge of machine guns, and the weapon jammed, he was mortally wounded, and he cleared the weapon, inspired his marines to keep on fighting, and ultimately he was killed, but if you know the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir, nobody was left behind. You know that phrase, no man’s left behind, well that was it right there. Everybody was pulled out, everything was taken, left nothing behind. Not like our current, running away, left all the armaments, and tanks, and weapons, and whatever else they just felt like, ‘Hey, get on the plane, let’s get out of here.”  They left too much behind, but that’s if you think like us old timers, you leave nothing behind. Not even the garbage, ‘cause even that can be turned into a weapon. That’s just me, that’s the way I think. So if you get a chance, send you on your way out, go down on, what is it? Throckmorton? Throckmorton, yeah. Go out to Rida’s Ice place, make the right hand turn off main street, go down to Route 9, go under the bridge and you’ll see his citation, his silver star citation and his purple heart citation, and a big picture of him in the middle. Don’t know if you’ve seen it yet.

Myself: I haven’t. I’ll have to go look at that.

Gunny: Perfectly safe to park under that bridge, and there’s a ten foot wide sidewalk under there, and it’s lit up at night so you can see it. Okay? And I tell this to everybody, get out, take a picture with it, make it famous, turn it into a state landmark. Okay? ‘Cause it’s the only of its kind. And it’s got this like, like I said, it’s got his portrait. His picture was only this big when we started, now he’s seventeen feet tall. Larger than life, and the best part was right down the straight was the Dill Family Farms at the time and Charlie Dill came over and goes, ‘That’s my uncle.’ So, he got his picture taken with his uncle. It was a neat thing. You get that when you get the memories. Freehold is abundant, when we do the Memorial Day parade, Elks Point here on Memorial Day morning, 8:30, there’s several family members that come out there, and they would stay behind their family members cross. To change out the flags and stuff like that. The family members are still here, Brinckerhoff, you know, all that, all those names. They’re still here, so this is part of their history, their families. They deserve to be remembered. And again, it’s all the way from the Revolutionary War all the way to Desert Storm. In fact, one of the last ones that was put in was actually a Freehold Township member, but we haven’t had someone add it to the cross list for so long, they said, ‘Yeah, we’ll take it.’ That sacrifice is still important.

Myself: I had a project in seventh grade, and it was driving around to different historical spots, and it is amazing, like you don’t realize how much New Jersey has, and I think it’s amazing how much we have here.

Gunny: The Maplewood Cemetery right over by the Freehold Raceway Mall, that’s where that one captain is. He was a founder of Memorial Day. It used to be called something else, I can’t remember off my head what it was, it was initially called something else. But he’s got a nice big monument out there. They did, I think two years ago, they did a nice little ceremony out front. He was a captain. But like you said, history, you got to love it.

Myself: I’m going to see it for myself and I’ll make it famous.

Gunny: You know, the funny part is that, it was Veteran’s Day, Freehold Township, I went to the mayor then, Lester Preston, and I say, ‘Hey, what’s it take to get a mural put underneath the bridge and cover up all that graffiti?’ And he’s like, ‘I don’t know, tell me what you want.’ So I did a photoshop thing, I gave a couple little things, and I sent it to him over, and he took it to the committee. Committee, they phone me, it’s not costing a tax payer a cent, on any level. Sent it into the state, the application and all that good stuff, and they got it, so I kept calling them, all this, January, February, March, every two weeks. I was like, ‘Hey, what’s the story? When can I start, when can I start?’ ‘We’re havin’ a meeting, we’re havin’ a meeting.’ So finally, I get the message that ‘We’re having a meeting on Wednesday.’ So on Thursday, after the meeting, I called them. I call them and say, ‘What’s the story?’ and they say ‘What meeting?’ So I stopped, I said, they don’t want, they have a stonewall in this project. Then they did the 9/11 service and from the Old City Hall, right here on Main Street, and there was two assembly men. I said, ‘What does it take to get this thing approved? It’s not costing a tax payer a penny.’ And they’re like, ‘What’re you talkin’ about?’ So I sent them a picture from my phone to their phone. Next you know, two weeks later, I get a letter from the Senator Gopal, said your project was approved back in July. So now I’m calling the committees, ‘What the heck am I waiting for?’ They say, ‘Oh, we’re going to make a ceremony out of it.’ I said, ‘Just tell me I have permission so I can get started.’ So three and half months later, and it’s almost done, I get a phone call from this lady named Ms. Murphy in Trenton, she said ‘You’ve got to remove all the lettering off the wall.’ I said, ‘What do I have to do that for?’ She goes, ‘People driving by at forty-five miles an hour are going to try to read it and they’re going to crash.’ I said, ‘You do realize you could park three tractor trailers underneath that bridge and not impede traffic in any way, shape, or form. Plus, there’s a ten foot wide sidewalk and it’s lit up at night.’ She didn’t know that. She just thought it was a wall. This is a hometown marine of our own, so it’s still up there. The Freehold Township committee heard about it and they said, ‘Yep, don’t touch it, don’t worry about it. If you get cut off at the highway department funds to fix potholes, if they’re going to take some of our money away because you didn’t paint over the wall, the lettering, don’t worry about it.’ And I got the committee to back me up on that one. So right now it just needs to be cleaned up a little bit but it’s still up there. Still goin’. Is why I say, stop by, get your picture taken with it, put it on Facebook, Tik Tok, whatever it is you’ve got to do, make it a landmark. That’s what I keep telling everybody, tell a friend, tellatubby.

Many people honor service men and women in many different ways. Another brave veteran whom I spoke with, Thomas, mentioned to me always looking for time to visit his grandfather’s grave, a World War II veteran, and taking a kneel before him.